Posts by Island Man

6

Bethel... Really the 'House of God'?

by tornapart in

just wondering why they would call the headquartes 'bethel', supposedly the 'house of god'.. what is 'bethel' really?

the bible tells us that it was the centre of false worship started by jereboam and the golden calf worship.

(1 kings 12:28-33).

Island Man

It's funny you should mention that. I was thinking along the exact same lines about a week ago.

You gave me an idea for a question on Y!A : http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131014081508AAC9JSp

14

So, the (N)NWT is gray in color?

by undercover in

jw
friends

okay, perusing the threads about the special meeting and new bible, i see that the new bible is gray.. gray?

gray?

as in - dull?

Island Man

I like the grey color. But you know something: colors have symbolic meanings. What does grey symbolize? Ever heard the expression 'a grey area?'

1

Could the JW Library presentation have been a clever product placement ad?

by Island Man in

do you think it's possible that the wtbts has/had an advertising contract with the technology giants whose gadgets serve as the platforms for the new jw library?

is it possible that the jw library presentation doubled as a clever product placement ad for those technology firms?

why would an organization that just a few years ago discouraged members from getting too caught up with modern technology now advertise an app in such a way that would entice members who don't have android phones, tablets, windows 8, etc, to go out and buy them so they can use jw library?

Island Man

Do you think it's possible that the WTBTS has/had an advertising contract with the technology giants whose gadgets serve as the platforms for the new JW Library? Is it possible that the JW Library presentation doubled as a clever product placement ad for those technology firms? Why would an organization that just a few years ago discouraged members from getting too caught up with modern technology now advertise an app in such a way that would entice members who don't have android phones, tablets, Windows 8, etc, to go out and buy them so they can use JW Library? Is it only me, or can you not also imagine many young teens in JW households cleverly using the JW Library app as means to convince their parents into forking out some cash to get some of that new, spiritually distracting technology that Satan's World has to offer?

14

Food for thought

by braincleaned in

why is it said that we "inherited" sin?

we all know the old 'dented cake mold' illustration... but it doesn't follow logic.. .

it was obviously not obligatory that we "inherited" sin.

Island Man

Braincleaned, there is a difference between the conception of Jesus and that of the offspring of Adam and Eve. In the case of Jesus, no imperfect human father was involved. But the imperfect man Adam was involved in the conception of Eve's children. So you see, there is a logic to it - bronze age, male chauvinistic, quack genetics.

It appears that the traditional belief among the ancients at the time was that inheritance is passed on only through males. Presumably, this is where the rational for the male inheritance law for passing on family property came from. It seems that this belief is responsible for the implicit reasoning that Jesus is free from sin because of not having an imperfect human Father. It also explains why the bible says: "Through one MAN sin entered into the world and death through sin" even though it was Eve - a WOMAN - who was actually the first sinner. But you see, because she was a woman, she could not have passed on sin to all mankind. Only the man - Adam - could bequeath sin to their progeny. Thus the bible says that it is though Adam that sin entered into the world of mankind. That's the quack genetics logic behind the virgin birth story.

The Watchtower seems to be blind to this inconvenient fact of male chauvinistic quack genetics among the ancients. They state that Jehovah also used his spirit to prevent imperfection from Mary corrupting the embryo of Jesus. In reality though, the purpose of the spirit - as clearly indicated by the angel - was to miraculously fertilize Mary's egg. It had nothing to do with preventing Mary's imperfection being passed on, because as a woman she could not pass it on! To illustrate my point, think about this: If the spirit served to overcome Mary's imperfection, then doesn't that render the whole virgin birth unecessary? For could Jehovah not have done the same for imperfect human sperm coming from Joseph? Couldn't Joseph have been Jesus' natural father just as Mary was his natural mother by Jehovah using his spirit to overcome the imperfection in Joseph's sperm the same as he did for the imperfection in Mary's egg? Of course he could have! The fact that he didn't confirms that the real issue is one of sin being bequeathed only through the male parent, and thus the need to avoid Jesus having an imperfect human male parent by using holy spirit.

You're right though. It doesn't make sense - because it's based on quack genetics.

29

Is it VITAL that we recognize the faithful slave?

by Trevor Scott in

jw gonebad made this comment in another post:.

get a load of this audacious and brassy statement by the self-appointed fds in par 2 of todays lesson:.

it is vital that we recognize the faithful slave.

Island Man

Well according to paragraph 21, page 178-180 of the "Jeremiah book" which was studied this week at the CBS it isn't vital at all:

A significant aspect of the new covenant is this: "I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, . . . And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, 'Know Jehovah!' for they will all of them know me." (Jer. 31:33, 34) The anointed on earth today have shown that they have God's law within them. They love the truths found in it, rather than relying on the teachings of any human. And they have happily shared Bible knowledge with those forming the great crowd. Thus, these with an earthly hope have also come to know and love Jehovah. They willingly submit to his direction and trust in his promises. You probably fit that description. You know him as a Person and have a personal relationship with him. What a benefit that is!

Is it just me, or were you also expecting to see 1 John 2:27 quoted or at least cited in that paragraph:

"And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in union with him."

According to the above quoted scripture and "Jeremiah book" excerpt, anointed christians are in no need of a faithful and discreet slave on whom they must depend to be taught about Jehovah, because they all know Jehovah through the operation of holy spirit within them. And please note that the expression to "know Jehovah" as used in this context is not limited to knowing the personality of Jehovah and having a personal relationship with him. It extends to living righteously in harmony with Jehovah's righteous standards. So 1 John 2:26,27 and the WBTS' own literature exposes them for the unscriptural, high-controlling, self-appointed masters of the faiths of all JWs, that they are!

23

Thinking of visiting a Kingdom Hall after 20 years in disguise

by not bitter in

jw
friends

i have been to my old kh for 2 funerals since i left 20 yrs ago but i don't think they count.

so i am thinking of visiting a different hall on a sunday for the public talk and wt study.

i want to go just to remind myself how simple minded it is and to hopefully help me appreciate how wonderful and free my life now is.

Island Man

This would take a little research on your part, but here is something you can try:

Find out all you can about another religion that has similar shunning policies, light getting brighter propaganda, and/or authoritarian, 'believe in us to be saved' leadership as the JWs.

When you go to the Hall, you can pretend that you are former member(s) of that other JW-like religion and you're going around to various churches searching for the truth. When you get into a conversation with JWs at the hall, tell them why you left your former religion using sound logic. Tell them about how controlling that former JW-like religion was, being sure, of course, to describe harmful aspects of the former religion that very closely mirrors JW practice and policy (all the while pretending you are completely oblivious to the JW worldview)!

Give them your sound reasoning as to how you discovered those practices to be unbiblical and cruel; how you realized that your former religion was discouraging you from listening to what former members had to say because they didn't want you to see through their lies and hypocrisies. Without ever being directly critical of JWs, and without coming off as being satirical or sarcastic, logically and honest-heartedly expose the errors of your former religion in such a way as to make it impossible for the JWs not to see their own organization's behavior and policies being mirrored in your former false religion. What would be super-golden, is if the Watchtower study material is of such a nature that it affords you an opportunity to share, in a brief comment, one example of the JW-mirroring, hypocrisy of your former religion and how you were able to logically refute it with scripture. That would be a TTATT WMD! (Or should that be TTATT WMA - TTATT Weapon of Mass Awakening) That ought to really get them thinking.

231

NEWBIES are leaving like crazy! Be very afraid WT

by clarity in

jw
friends

# 3 newbie post.

first of all, the newbies have set a record here!.

have you ever seen a 4pg post where 21 new members reply!

Island Man

You forgot to mention me, Island Man.

293

AGM 5 OCTOBER 2013 (UNOFFICIAL RUMORS)

by WatchTower87 in

- 23 day to go .. annual meeting unofficial rumors.

- new bible.

- new nwt (revision).

Island Man

Re: new light on 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

I think it is possible that the significance of that verse has been blown out of proportion by the GB in their thinking of it as being some announcement that would indicated destruction is near.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 could simply be an expansion on the thought mentioned in verse 2: "that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night". In other words, the writer, after saying that Jehovah's day is coming as a thief in the night explains the significance of the statement by saying that it would take people by surprise when they feel secure and at peace. The writer could be in effect saying:

"Jehovah's day is coming as a thief in the night, i.e. it would catch the wicked off guard at a time when they feel at peace and secure - like a householder in his bed at night feeling at peace and secure when BAM! a thief comes!"

This possibility is supported by the fact that the very next verse - verse 4 - returns to the illustration of the thief:

"But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves,"

So since 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is sandwiched between 2 verses using the illustration of a thief or thieves coming suddenly in the night, it is very likely that verse 3 is simply an explanation of the significance of the illustration - that people would be caught off guard when they feel at peace and secure. 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is likely not a prophecy of some grand announcement of international proportions related to peace and security and portending imminent destruction. Significantly, no other book of the NT, in speaking about day of Jehovah, mentions anything like is stated at 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

3

Contradiction in use of Proverbs 4:18

by trackregister99 in

when a teaches is changed the wt cites: proverbs 4:18.. now russell is the "messenger", ex "wise and faithful servant".

he as god messenger write this:.

**** w1881 february pag.

Island Man

Excellent find, trackregister99!

Now you know why the old literature written by C.T. Russel cannot be found in the Watchtower Library. And isn't it very convenient that C.T. Russel, as per new light, is no longer considered as having been part of the faithful and discreet slave? So that conveniently removes any spiritual authority to the statements in that 1881 Watchtower. Ain't new light great? New light even has the power to shed new light on new light so as to render current light on new light as old light on new light. Do you see the light?

8

Could rebaptism present a loophole for exiting without being shunned?

by Island Man in

this is how i imagine it can work: the baptized jw first gets the elders to acknowledge in written form that his previous baptism was in fact null and void.

* then later, coming close to baptism - preferably, the day of rebaptism - he changes his mind about being rebaptized (maybe he says no or remains silent when the questions are being asked, with this being video recorded).

so legally, he never was a legitimately baptized jw and therefore should not be anounced as "bro.

Island Man

This is how I imagine it can work: The baptized JW first gets the elders to acknowledge in written form that his previous baptism was in fact null and void.* Then later, coming close to baptism - preferably, the day of rebaptism - he changes his mind about being rebaptized (maybe he says no or remains silent when the questions are being asked, with this being video recorded). So legally, he never was a legitimately baptized JW and therefore should not be anounced as "Bro. So and so is NO LONGER one of Jehovah's Witnesses". They can only legally say: "Bro. So and so was NEVER one of Jehovah's Witnesses". But will they? Given that the JW was never legally a baptized JW his "status" in exiting the group is not much different to that of a bible student who regularly attended meetings for a while but never got baptized and subsequently stopped attending meetings. His documentation of the organization's written or other acknowledgement of the invalidity of his previous baptism, and the fact that he never was legally baptized, can then be forwarded to the elders along with a letter from his lawyer warning them not to announce him as "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" since he never was one and thus exempt from the group's authority to "handle" members and that furthermore, legal action will be taken if they proceed to do that. Can something like this work? What do you think?

For those wondering about what I'm talking about re rebaptism and who can stomach reading Watchtower material, here is an article on the subject of rebaptism:

"*** w102/15p.22QuestionsFromReaders***

Under

whatcircumstancesmightrebaptismbeconsidered?

Under certain circumstances, a baptized person may want to give thought to the validity of his baptism and may consider rebaptism. At the time of baptism, for instance, an individual may secretly have been living in a situation or engaging in a practice that could have resulted in his being disfellowshipped if he had already been validly baptized. Could he make a dedication to God in such circumstances? Such an individual would have been in a position to make a valid dedication to Jehovah only if the unscriptural conduct had been discontinued. Therefore, a person baptized while such a serious impediment existed may appropriately consider the necessity of rebaptism.

What about an individual who was not practicing sin at the time of his baptism but whose subsequent wrongdoing required the formation of a judicial committee? Suppose he then claimed that he did not fully understand what he was doing at the time of his baptism and said that his baptism was not truly a valid one. When meeting with a wrongdoer, the elders should not raise questions about his baptism and ask whether he feels that his dedication and baptism were valid. After all, he heard a Scriptural discourse about the significance of baptism. He answered affirmatively questions regarding dedication and baptism. Then he changed his clothing and was physically immersed in water. It is, therefore, reasonable to believe that he fully understood the seriousness of what he was doing. The elders would thus treat him as a baptized person.

If the individual raises the issue of the validity of his baptism, the elders may direct his attention to TheWatchtower of March 1, 1960, pages 159 and 160, and February 15, 1964, pages 123 to 126, where the matter of rebaptism is discussed in detail. Eventual rebaptism under certain circumstances (such as a lack of sufficient Bible understanding when one was baptized) is a personal matter."

__________________________

* I know you might be thinking the elders would first contact legal dept. regarding this and they wouldn't agree to it. An alternative record of acknowledgement of previous baptism being null and void, can be the mere fact that the JW on the day of his supposed rebaptism, sits in the baptism section as a candidate for baptism and his name is called out from the stage as a candidate. This can be video recorded as evidence of the organization having recognized his previous baptism as being null and void.